Συζήτηση:illegal

Παράγωγα vs Σύνθετα

Hi User:Sarri.greek,

When is it better to use παράγωγα vs σύνθετα? I notice sometimes that you are changing my work immediately after I publish it which is fine. However, could you please explain why you are making the changes that you make so that I can learn? For example, my example for illegally was from πύλη with λαθραία. Maybe that’s an outdated word? I don’t know but it would be helpful to explain.

Thanks, Stephilippou (συζήτηση) 14:34, 30 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)

☏ Stephilippou, you may transfer this to your Talk page, if you wish.

• derivatives v. compounds At el.wikt παράγωγα v. σύνθετα Compare to wikt:en:WT:ELE#Derived_terms, wikt:en:derivative παράγωγο is a stem plus a suffix In Greek, all προθέσεις (παρά, εκ-, εν- etc) give derivatives. In English drive ^(en)+er, xxx-ly, etc. -er and -ly are not 'words'. A wikt:en:compound is more specifically two distinct stems (lexemes or words, meanings). En.wikt does not make the distinction and puts everything at DerivedTerms sectin. I am not a linguist and cannot explain any better, also, my knowledge of English Grammar is minimal.
• παράνομος = exactly παρά-νομος il-legal. You have the absolutely exact translation. The λαθραίος is slightly different (plus the element of secrecy). Your reader must be aware of exact or near usages. ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ | 15:05, 30 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek ευχαριστώ! That makes sense so a derivative (παραγωγό) is a word formed with a πρόθεση ή επίθημα and a compound (σύνθετα) is a word formed by two real words, like ferryboat for example?

Stephilippou (συζήτηση)< Stephilippou (συζήτηση) 18:27, 30 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)

Keep crosschecking Translations at the 4 places: el.wikt greek, el.wikt eng, en.wikt greek, en.wikt english. (not always correct, but useful. Also you might spot mistakes and correct them too) ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ | 15:05, 30 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)

PS And one more thing, if you are interested ☏ Stephilippou, recently en.wikt voted for collocations (wikt:en:WT:COLL) our equivalent of 'glossae', very useful e.g. λαθραία τσιγάρα - λαθραίο κυνήγι (such very frequent collocations, may be translated slightly differently in each lang.) ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ | 15:37, 30 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek Interesting so are you saying collocations are a new thing that’s happening on el.wiki too or just en.wiki? In English, λαθραίο κυνήγι is translated to a single word poaching, the noun which I should add. It looks like it’s a collocation in Greek but not English. Stephilippou Stephilippou (συζήτηση) 18:33, 30 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC) (συζήτηση) 18:33, 30 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)

☏ Stephilippou,

• yes ferryboat is a nice example of a compound. Unfortunately, Κατηγορία:Σύνθετα is a big εκκρεμότητα for el.wikt. But every lang. has its own characteristics e.g. English has too many 'compounds' with a separating space between the 2 words (or a hyphen). Also in Turkish, these are considered as Compounds. But not in Greek where linguists use different descriptions such as χαλαρά σύνθετα, απολεξικοποιημένα ρήματα etc.
• No, at el.wikt we do not have ενότητα Collocations: like en.wkit did all previous years, we place these at {{eg}} examples (ux: usage examples) as is the practice of printed dictionaries. They are the ones that do not need capital letter or full stops, because they are not full sentences (if you recall our first days together). On the other hand, we have here Κατηγορία:Εκφράσεις (expressions), which does not exist in en.wikt (I wonder why). It covers nicely all such 'compounds' or 'collociations' or 'loose compounds' without entering the thorny linguistic questions that arise.

In general, we make pages, and we count as lemmata things you see in dictionaries in bold. But lemmatizing every usage collocation, I think is a little trick, to show that a dictionary has more entries? :) :) See how we present numbers of lemmata at Κατηγορία:Νέα ελληνικά. ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ | 00:28, 31 Μαΐου 2023 (UTC)